From: "G.Grimble" <>

Organization: roehampton institute london

Subject: Re: Nutrition fraud ?




Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:53:24 -0800

From: linda/richard <>

Subject: Re: Colloidal minerals: nutrition fraud


>From: Kevin Kelly <>


>Organization: Forever Healthy

>Subject: Re: Colloidal minerals


>This reply is lengthy, but I think people will find it interesting.


>I am a Licensed Registered Dietitian. Nutrition fraud is something I

>follow closely. All of this talk about colloidal minerals and most of

>the rest of this vitamin/mineral hype is just that. The claims are

>numerous and usually ridiculous. For example, one tape entitled "Dead

>Doctors Don't Lie" sounds convincing, but is so bogus.



i can agree with about half of what you said in this posting. i too get

distressed by people self medicating especially with hormones like dhea

without proper consultation and testing. but i do have some problems with

some of your statements and with the ADA's approach to nutrition.



>misinformation and bogus products know it. Just follow the money

>trail. Quacks push products that are glitzy, glamourous, and offer

>instant gratification. That appeals to many people.


what about the medical industry money trail? many aspects of modern medicine

are not vigourously tested with double blind studies. for instance heart bypass

surgery.chemo/radiation treatments for cancer. until last year (or the year

before)modern medicine didn't know how aspirin worked, yet its been

prescribed for decades.


>It is easy to fool people who are looking for the quick fix. i agree but

dr's also promote the idea of a quick fix.


>People claim they feel better after taking a product. If there is a

>true nutritional deficiency, a supplement may help. Besides, a

>diagnosis is needed by a physician to determine a true deficiency.


how many dr's are educated about supplements and diet to even look for a



>look at many food records and many people are deficient in calcium.

>That doesn't mean they have osteoporosis. Yes, it could happen in the

>future. Calcium is involved in muscle contraction. Even though these

>people lack adequate amounts of calcium in the diet, their muscles

>still work. Most people who feel better are almost always

>experiencing a placebo effect.


calcium is envolved with alot more than osteoporosis and muscle contraction.

what's so wrong about the placebo effect.?



Why trust your nutritional needs to someone whose nutritional background

is inadequate?


if you've ever had to stay in a hospital or other instition that is feed by

a ADA nutritionist and get feed artifically flavored and colored gelatin

you know that something is wrong.

here in seattle there was a professor of nutrition at the university of

washington who said that cola and carbonated beverages were good to drink

because they contain phosphorus , a essential nutrient!!

so the ADA has a long way to go before it can claim to have the interest

proper nutrition as its highest goal.




richard and linda seattle wa.



16th Jan 1997


What you are all saying sounds suspiciously like the debate on

'conditionally-essential' nutrients for critically-ill patients (eg.

arginine, glutamine, nucleotides, fish-oils, fibre & etc). I was so

incensed by some of these claims that I wrote a rather more than

usually critical review:-

Grimble, G.K. Essential and conditionally-essential nutrients in

clinical nutrition. Nutr.Res.Rev. 6:97-119, 1993.

which basically said that terms need to be defined before any

nutrient can be classed as conditionally essential, and that

improvement in funtion has to be shown for that single nutrient to

win its' spurs. For example, there are lots of things in breast milk

which have been classed as conditionally essential for baby (eg.

polyamines, nucleotides, casomorphin-like sequences) and because at

various doages they can be shown to affect intestinal differentiation

etc. Their presence in breast milk does not prove the case. If that were so, then capsaicin from chili pepper

would be a conditionally essential nutrient because it can get into

breast milk and has potent effects on GI motility and electrolyte

uptake. I rest my case!


Dr George Grimble, Reader in Clinical Nutrition, Roehampton